Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/24/2000 01:05 PM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
      HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                 February 24, 2000                                                                                              
                     1:05 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman                                                                                          
Representative Bill Hudson                                                                                                      
Representative John Cowdery                                                                                                     
Representative Allen Kemplen                                                                                                    
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beverly Masek                                                                                                    
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 289                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to transportation of members of the Alaska                                                                     
National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia, and the Alaska State                                                                  
Defense Force by the Alaska marine highway system and the Alaska                                                                
Railroad; and relating to the Alaska State Defense Force."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 289 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 182                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to charitable gaming and to gaming on state                                                                    
ferries; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 289                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: TRANSPORTATION OF MEMBERS OF ALASKA NATL GUAR                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/14/00      1923     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/14/00      1924     (H)  MLV, TRA, FIN                                                                                       
 2/10/00               (H)  MLV AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 2/10/00               (H)  Moved Out of Committee                                                                              
 2/10/00               (H)  MINUTE(MLV)                                                                                         
 2/11/00      2174     (H)  MLV RPT 6DP                                                                                         
 2/11/00      2175     (H)  DP: KOTT, CROFT, CISSNA, PORTER,                                                                    
 2/11/00      2175     (H)  FOSTER, MURKOWSKI                                                                                   
 2/11/00      2175     (H)  2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DOT, H.MLV/DCED)                                                               
 2/24/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 182                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: CHARITABLE GAMING & GAMING ON FERRIES                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/08/99       690     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/08/99       690     (H)  TRA, JUD, FIN                                                                                       
 2/01/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/01/00               (H)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 2/01/00               (H)  MINUTE(TRA)                                                                                         
 2/15/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/15/00               (H)  -- Meeting Postponed --                                                                             
 2/17/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/17/00               (H)  Failed To Move Out Of Committee                                                                     
 2/17/00               (H)  MINUTE(TRA)                                                                                         
 2/24/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MANLY, Staff                                                                                                               
   to Representative John Harris                                                                                                
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 110                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 289.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS S. WESTALL, Brigadier General                                                                                            
49th Civil Support Brigade                                                                                                      
Alaska State Defense Force/Alaska State Militia                                                                                 
PO Box 5800                                                                                                                     
Fort Richardson, Alaska 99505-0800                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in support of HB 289.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
NORM EDWARDS, Captain                                                                                                           
Operations Manager                                                                                                              
Alaska Marine Highway System                                                                                                    
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                                                                                
3132 Channel Drive                                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 289.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-12, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing                                                                 
Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m.  Members present at the                                                                 
call to order were Representatives Halcro, Cowdery, Kemplen and                                                                 
Kookesh.  Representative Hudson arrived as the meeting was in                                                                   
progress.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 289 - TRANSPORTATION OF MEMBERS OF ALASKA NATL GUAR                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first order of business as House Bill                                                             
289, "An Act relating to transportation of members of the Alaska                                                                
National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia, and the Alaska State                                                                  
Defense Force by the Alaska marine highway system and the Alaska                                                                
Railroad; and relating to the Alaska State Defense Force."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0045                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MANLY, Staff to Representative John Harris, Alaska State                                                                   
Legislature, came before the committee to present HB 289.  The bill                                                             
is relatively simple.  It would allow for the transportation free                                                               
of charge for members of the volunteer defense forces on a                                                                      
space-available basis aboard the marine highway and railroad                                                                    
systems.  He pointed out that it would only be for individuals, not                                                             
vehicles.  The bill would also change the language, "Alaska State                                                               
Militia," to "Alaska State Defense Force."  He noted that their                                                                 
title was changed operationally years ago; they wanted to avoid any                                                             
association with other types of militia organizations.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0187                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ALBERT KOOKESH stated individuals who reach a                                                                    
certain age are allowed to travel on the ferries at a discounted                                                                
fare on a space-available basis.  He has no objection to this                                                                   
legislation.  It makes a lot of sense.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MANLY indicated that another body or two aboard a ferry might                                                               
translate to selling a meal or stateroom.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0260                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Manly, Who currently picks up the tab?                                                                
The individual or the National Guard?                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MANLY replied, according to his understanding, the National                                                                 
Guard has a limited amount of funding for travel.  The bill,                                                                    
therefore, would allow members of the volunteer defense forces to                                                               
travel more frequently and to participate in expanded types of                                                                  
drills.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0318                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY proposed a friendly amendment to                                                                    
include University of Alaska-Anchorage students.  He was told by                                                                
railroad staff that out-of-state students are allowed to travel for                                                             
free, but that has not been extended to in-state students.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MANLY indicated that Representative Harris would not object to                                                              
the proposed friendly amendment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH pointed out that the bill is very specific                                                               
to the military.  It says, " ... who are involved in training to                                                                
defend our state and our freedom."  He appreciates the intent of                                                                
the proposed friendly amendment, but it may be more appropriate to                                                              
include it in the language that allows for the free transportation                                                              
for out-of-state students.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated he's not sure whether there is any                                                                
language.  The railroad is just doing it.  He said, "If they are                                                                
doing it for out-of-state students, certainly our in-state students                                                             
should have the same privilege."  It might be necessary to change                                                               
the title as well.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Representative Cowdery whether that privilege                                                             
is set in statute or policy.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY replied it's something that the railroad has                                                             
taken upon themselves.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated he would hesitate to support the proposed                                                                
friendly amendment; the railroad is not here today to respond.                                                                  
Furthermore, it might be something that should be changed in policy                                                             
rather than in statute.  He agrees with Representative Kookesh in                                                               
that the title of this legislation is very specific and tight.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY withdrew his proposed friendly amendment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0754                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN KEMPLEN asked Mr. Manly how an individual                                                                  
would be identified as en route to official militia activities.  He                                                             
is concerned about abuse.  He wondered whether language could be                                                                
inserted such as, "upon presentation of adequate documentation,"                                                                
thereby removing any temptation for abuse.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MANLY replied representatives of the defense force have                                                                     
indicated that members would be traveling under orders, and in                                                                  
order to obtain a free passage they would have to show that order.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated he doesn't see language to that                                                                   
effect in this legislation.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MANLY stated, he thinks, that the Marine Highway System could                                                               
extrapolate the intent of this legislation.  That being, if an                                                                  
individual doesn't have orders with him/her, that individual would                                                              
not be allowed on board.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO suggested holding Representative Kemplen's question                                                             
until the representative from the marine highway is called on to                                                                
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0931                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY said he believes that individuals serving in                                                             
the military are honest and that they would not abuse this.  He                                                                 
would hate to label them by including language to indicate that                                                                 
they are untrustworthy.  Similarly, a senior citizen doesn't have                                                               
to provide a birth certificate, for example, to get an exemption.                                                               
It's called the honor system.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0998                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated, as a veteran of the army, he can                                                                 
certainly envision a number of situations where a member would be                                                               
highly tempted to take advantage of this.  In addition, many of                                                                 
these members do not make a lot of money.  They might see this as                                                               
an opportunity for a free ticket to save some money.  They would be                                                             
willing to "push the envelope" in terms of what is honorable.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1036                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated, in his other life, military personnel have                                                              
to show a copy of their travel orders in order to get a special                                                                 
agreement.  He is assuming that there would be checks and balances                                                              
in place.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1059                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated it's sort of a "shot in the face" to                                                              
not trust members of the military.  He doesn't think that there                                                                 
would be any abuse.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1082                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON stated in his 20 years of military                                                                   
service he never traveled without orders.  He's sure that the                                                                   
Marine Highway System could set up a regulation requiring a member                                                              
to carry orders, as well as a penalty for any violations.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1178                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS S. WESTALL, Brigadier General, 49th Civil Support Brigade,                                                               
Alaska State Defense Force/Alaska State Militia, testified via                                                                  
teleconference from Anchorage.  He is advocating for this                                                                       
legislation because it's not only for the occasional transportation                                                             
of a soldier from one duty station to another, it's for disaster                                                                
preparedness and response.  The defense force/militia has not                                                                   
always been able to economically utilize its forces in remote                                                                   
locations, such as Southeast, in relation to disasters.  In                                                                     
addition, the defense force/militia cannot use federal equipment in                                                             
any way; they are limited to reinforcing soldiers.  Therefore, the                                                              
ability to travel by way of the marine highway and railroad systems                                                             
adds a new way for the state to respond to disasters in order to                                                                
protect its citizens, life and property.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
GENERAL WESTALL further stated that the mechanics of this                                                                       
legislation can be adequately worked out, so that it doesn't place                                                              
a burden on either the railroad or Marine Highway Systems                                                                       
economically.  He cited that the defense force/militia members who                                                              
fought at the Millers Reach fire worked very long hours to protect                                                              
life and property, but there was no facility to relieve those who                                                               
were exhausted.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
GENERAL WESTALL further stated, in relation to the concerns                                                                     
regarding orders and military discipline, that both the national                                                                
guard and defense force/militia are very well-regulated.  There are                                                             
consequences for individuals who do not want to operate according                                                               
to the regulations.  He cited that a member of the defense                                                                      
force/militia can't even put on a uniform unless under military                                                                 
orders.  He also cited that members travel under specific orders,                                                               
so that they can't wonder very far from the most expeditious route.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1470                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
NORM EDWARDS, Captain, Operations Manager, Alaska Marine Highway                                                                
System, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, came                                                                  
before the committee to testify.  He read the following into the                                                                
record:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The Alaska Marine Highway System fully supports the                                                                        
     legislature's effort to allow Alaska State military                                                                        
     personnel to travel on the Alaska Marine Highway System.                                                                   
     We are happy to be a part of ensuring Alaska's forces of                                                                   
     being properly trained and ready for emergency                                                                             
     deployment.  We understand that this bill is for the                                                                       
     transportation of Alaska military members who are en                                                                       
     route to or returning from regular training exercises or                                                                   
     assigned deployments in a space-available capacity as                                                                      
     passengers aboard the Alaska Marine Highway System ships.                                                                  
     Therefore, the cost to the Alaska Marine Highway System                                                                    
     would be minimal.  The only concerns that the Alaska                                                                       
     Marine Highway System has is that these military                                                                           
     personnel may get displaced by revenue-paying passengers                                                                   
     during their travel, which could cause them delays.  The                                                                   
     Alaska Marine Highway System would hope that this                                                                          
     legislation would allow these operations to be                                                                             
     complementary to what we already do.  To that end, our                                                                     
     plans to implement this bill will include practices that                                                                   
     are not different than how we treat space available for                                                                    
     our own employees.  Also, defining 'space available' and                                                                   
     'bumping practices.'  Specifically, space available means                                                                  
     same day of sailing.  We will not take reservations in                                                                     
     advance for this travel, for we cannot displace                                                                            
     revenue-paying passengers.  Space available does not                                                                       
     guarantee passage for the duration of a voyage if there                                                                    
     is more than one link in the itinerary.  For instance, a                                                                   
     Sitka passenger sailing on space-available passage to                                                                      
     Skagway could be bumped in Juneau, if fare-paying                                                                          
     customers are waiting to sail on standby in Juneau.  This                                                                  
     person would then have to disembark and wait for the next                                                                  
     sailing with space available to proceed.  Under our own                                                                    
     union contracts, AMHS employees sail on space-available                                                                    
     basis at any time and have a limitation.  It is possible                                                                   
     that a combination of AMHS employees and Alaska State                                                                      
     military personnel will exceed the amount of space                                                                         
     available.  In that case, we will allow the passage on a                                                                   
     first-come, first-serve basis.  Those are the only                                                                         
     concerns that we want to make everyone aware of Mr.                                                                        
     Chairman, for the Alaska Marine Highway System fully                                                                       
     supports this bill.  I would be happy to answer any                                                                        
     questions.  Thank you.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1614                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO referred to the concept of yield management and                                                                 
asked Captain Edwards whether the Marine Highway System would                                                                   
incorporate a concept like that.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied yes.  He further noted that the only                                                                    
restriction for passenger space is the limitation placed by the                                                                 
Coast Guard for lifesaving capabilities.  The ferries, however,                                                                 
seldom run to capacity for passengers, except for particular events                                                             
in Lynn Canal.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1667                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Captain Edwards to explain how the                                                                 
Marine Highway System would prevent abuse.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied the Marine Highway System would have to                                                                 
instill a policy whereby military personnel would have to present                                                               
orders at the counter before boarding.  The Marine Highway System                                                               
would work with the military organizations to arrange a format in                                                               
order that it could be scrutinized by marine highway employees.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1707                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Captain Edwards whether he feels that                                                              
the language in this legislation gives the Marine Highway System                                                                
the authority to implement controls.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied he doesn't believe that this legislation                                                                
allows for latitude.  As previously indicated, the Marine Highway                                                               
System and the military organizations would work together to                                                                    
establish regulations, which may include traveling in uniform, for                                                              
example.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1739                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH stated he wants to be certain that this                                                                  
legislation only refers to individuals and not equipment.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN EDWARDS stated it is the understanding of the Marine                                                                    
Highway System that this legislation only refers to individuals.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1772                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to move HB 289 out of                                                                      
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal                                                                   
note(s).  There being no objection, HB 289 so moved from the House                                                              
Transportation Standing Committee.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB 182 - CHARITABLE GAMING & GAMING ON FERRIES                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the next order of business as House Bill                                                              
182, "An Act relating to charitable gaming and to gaming on state                                                               
ferries; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO indicated that he was approached about two hours                                                                
ago by the sponsor of HB 182 [Representative Pete Kott] to move the                                                             
bill out of committee.  However, he personally has an intense                                                                   
dislike for bills being brought up at the last minute, even though                                                              
it's perfectly legitimate under the Uniform Rules.  The sponsor has                                                             
assured him that he has the votes to move the bill out of                                                                       
committee, but that sponsor did not anticipate the absence of two                                                               
committee members.  He asked for discussion amongst the committee                                                               
members on whether or not this bill should be considered for a                                                                  
vote.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1849                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated that bringing up a held-over bill                                                              
is standard procedure.  It doesn't require a notice.  He intends to                                                             
vote to move the bill out of committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he objects to not having enough notice.                                                             
Furthermore, he is willing to leave and believes that one other                                                                 
committee member is willing to leave as well to disrupt the quorum.                                                             
He said, "Nobody approached me about voting for it or bringing it                                                               
out of committee, so I don't feel any obligation to sit here and                                                                
continue to..."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1907                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked whether it takes four members to move                                                               
a bill out of committee or four "do pass" votes.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied, according to his understanding, a quorum                                                               
of four is needed to conduct business, but a majority of the quorum                                                             
is needed to move legislation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1926                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Chairman Halcro whether all of the                                                                  
transportation aspects of the bill have been removed.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied, "Yes."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON replied then that he personally doesn't see                                                               
a reason to hold the bill in committee any longer.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he doesn't see a reason to hold the                                                                 
bill in committee either, but he wants the other two members of the                                                             
committee [Representative Masek and Kohring] present before taking                                                              
such action.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1955                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated he is personally opposed to the                                                                   
extension of gambling in the state.  He is willing to leave, along                                                              
with Representative Kookesh, to disrupt the quorum.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated he has some philosophical problems with the                                                              
bill as well.  He reiterated that he doesn't like it when a                                                                     
chairman "drops something on the table" at the last minute.  It is                                                              
unfair.  He announced that he would hold the bill in committee and                                                              
bring it up again at a future date.  He would notify the sponsor of                                                             
his decision.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[HB 182 WAS HELD IN COMMITTEE]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman                                                                  
Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee                                                                    
meeting at 1:40 p.m.                                                                                                            

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